Re: rule updates

[Draxus]

why are we deliberatly quest light?
I really want to go on one at event2 having missed all of them at event1

[Wozzi]

I think we were accidentally quest light. I hope to change that for the next event

Need to not just focus on the arena but how we can aid our action in the arena

[Steve (Aegis Hellas)]

Yes we didnt do many quests but that was not for not wanting to. I didnt get to go on any and i was gutted. This years plan is to do at least a Nation quest for something for the temple/shrine and i hope as many quests as we can get our grubby little hands on to boot.

Resiliance is also valid in the arena Oenos and gives longer term characters and RP development which i personally felt was lacking at event 1 once people had cycled through a couple of characters. We had cool backgrounds and storys at the start but the death rate was so high i gave up evne bothering to remember peoples IC names as they died so fast, anything to reduce that kind of massacre and retain more RP and story is welcome in my eyes. And at least it gives the chance of making a name for yourself and gaining long term recognition in the community and with the Gods. Losing nearly every single warleader last event sucked Minotaur balls quite frankly!

[Leviticus]

I did suggest a dropping of all weapon skills and having combat skills only as such things as extra hits, resilience etc- but have been outright told that will never happen.
Shame as I think a lot more real flavour of the nations comes through in:
a) Kit
b) what we are doing RP wise
I don't think much, if anything, is being added by forcing nations to take specific weapon skill sets if they want the full 5 points worth- particularly as I know people who don't want to use spears or javelins and will thus have a 4 skill point build that means they are armed, rather than a 5 skill point kit that means they have no useable weapon skill at all!

I'd much rather see some true character skills that are really representative of the nations- giving them definition by what they can do but no one else can, rather than what they can't do unless they are 'less skilled' overall than their peers!

Short of that, I think most of us would rather our champions lost Javelin for Resilience rather than a hit point.


With regards to the 'use a dagger up close' thing PD keep stating, I am wondering if they have forgotten that you can't stab with a dagger in this system! That's a 12" bladed weapon you have to slash with, which is pretty damned tricky when you both have shields- even if your opponent doesn't have a foot or more extra reach on you!

[Philip]

then use a 36 inch spear with a long blade (18inch) with a six inch stap safe tip good up close and stappy with some slashing use.

[Philip]

you could try asking Pd to lengthen the dagger length, or beter yet make it about blade length (or even handle to tip length so pommels don't count).

a 15-18 inch blade would be ideal for a Xiphos (actually a little bit long if your a certain age of spartan but you cant stab) and would allow fancy handles. This would allow us to wield great looking side arms with ornate handles without taking the piss (by extension dont take the piss and wield a long handled weapon near the pommel) they would also be noticably shorter then one handed weapons.

[Leviticus]

I refer to the earlier comments regarding that is what I will be doing (I have 3 of them)- but it still doesn't stop the fact that the Javelin skill is unused and it doesn't look right compared to having a sword!
Oh, and it's harder to have a javelin in a scabbard.

[Oenos [Daedanauts]]

Resiliance is also valid in the arena Oenos and gives longer term characters and RP development which i personally felt was lacking at event 1 once people had cycled through a couple of characters.

Character development is a positive and laudible thing, but it of no use in the arena. Your resilience only comes into play when you're already on your arse and are playing no further part in the fight.

Re the stab safe daggers...I strongly doubt that they would be allowed. And even if they were, if they followed the same rules as the spears they would look ridiculous.

Also - is anyone else still getting annoying snowflakes? Is this a profile setting or do they have to be switched off by site admin?

[Wozzi]

hehehehe. Admin put the snowflakes on for xmas festiveness. i'll ask to have it removed you old bah humbug type person you

[Draxus]

I am tempted to see if i can get a naginata styled stab safe (javelin)
will try keep it greek style but will have a lot more blade than the javelin

[Pythagoras]

Latest weather update: The snow showers have ceased due to a warm front from moving down from Thrace (queue the jokes ) but could return again possibly around the winter solstace

[Colin (Aegis Hellas)]

I agree, 'use Javelin' has to be the most feeble of our skills...

Yes we can use javelins in melee but why bother when we could also use a 48" stab safe spear in melee.

The extra hit would be nice but i'd prefer to drop javelin for Sword so we can transition from spear to Sword when needed.

The balance is wrong.

[Colin (Aegis Hellas)]

personally I have to disagree. The javlin was a very Greek weapon, mainly used by Peltas and Psiloi. So from a historical view piont they have merit.

The hopolite kit covers several types of warrior just as the roman leginaire can cover a Gladiator. Unless Pd start running multipul classes for champions javalin is a key weapon.

Then there is the mythic setting to take into account, Odessey is not a precisely historical setting.

I am not arguing that javalins can be weak I am just saying the argument is hardly clear cut.

Yes but we are not playing Peltas as Champions and having the 'throw javelin' skill has proved to be rather useless. No one is going ot bother throwing them, after all in the game mechanics you need 5 javelins to throw at someone and for all of them to hit to take down one person, all this can be achieved with i arrow. There is no comparison. Javelins are useless in the game and i challange any one including PD to make a worthwhile case against my comments above.

Throw javelin out Hand weapon in.

[Draxus]

should we consider making our case to PD about javelins, as colin that arguement you just used is as you say almost impossible to argue against

[Colin (Aegis Hellas)]

Yes, i'm seriously thining that. Perhaps a petition with a list of names of those who wish for the change, after all we are paying customers and we have a vested interest in our nation. We are simply requesting a skill swap not anything additional.

Greek kit would then be:

Spear
Cultural Armour & Shield
Extra Hit
Resilience (or do we want extra hit instead)
Hand weapon

[Draxus]

I think we really want resilience, we lost so many hoplites due to the lack of it.
I am positive 99% of the greek players will give their name to said petition

[Colin (Aegis Hellas)]

I think we really want resilience, we lost so many hoplites due to the lack of it.
I am positive 99% of the greek players will give their name to said petition

Fair you're right. But the main people who need resilience are the warleaders, the ammount of warleaders we went through last game caused us tons of problems, in fact not just us everyone. Warleaders need it imo more than champions.

[Draxus]

Maybe then it can be two petitions, one for one handed weapon over javelin and the other warleaders to get resilience, citing that as we are the only nation to have ZERO NPC leadership we need warleaders who will last an event.

[Colin (Aegis Hellas)]

Very good point.

[Leviticus]

The other massive problem with Throw Javelin is... we can still hit you in clsoe combat with one due to having Use Spear! In fact, Throw Javelin doesn't allow you to use one in melee! Seriously pointless skill as it stands...


As a warleader next event I would rather have resilience than a hit point that's for sure- especially with all those 'number of hits is irrrelevant' arrows flying around.

What I don't want though is them to come back and say they will be giving us NPC leaders.
I am currently trying to learn Greek for the very simple reason of telling the messengers to 'Sod off, I'm the Warleader not you.' in the native tongue- especially after the farce of those quest orders that supposedly came from Zeus!

[Archimedes]

I do think warleaders of all nations could use an extra skill. Ie reslilence. But I understand why pd have been keen to have warleaders weaker then champions

[Steve (Aegis Hellas)]

Spear
Cultural Armour & Shield
Extra Hit
Resilience
Hand weapon

This is the kit build i would support totally. Javelins are rubbish, they cost £25 quid (arrows i can get for £7 each), as pointed out they are about as aerodynamic as an anvil, you need 5 (£125 worth plus holster)to kill most warriors! I would be very much in support of a petition for this because Javelins are next to useless.

OR

Give thrown Javelins Impale like arrows or some form of special attack to make them viable. This would then make them a viable choice of weapon and encourage Peltast and Psiloi type load outs and tactics.

Personally i would be happy with either of these options but as its stands they are crap.

[Wozzi]

You can put my name to petition but I have emailed them with my concern about javelins and was told that it wasn't going to be changed...

[Archimedes]

Javlins with impale would be awful. Considering that the only times I was hit by one was it dropping on my head after bouncing of someone.

[Steve (Aegis Hellas)]

It would have to be written that it impales only via a direct hit not a skimmer or bouncer Dean. However i am more in favor of Colins suggested Kit with the resiliance and hand weapon added and javelin dropped. Colin and others make a compelling point and unless something is done to improve the Javelins combat effectiveness few if anyone will use them as thrown weapons.

Where should we make this petition on here? We could add our names to the petition and copy and past as the thread moves on then mail that to PD?

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