rule updates

[Archimedes]

I got this from rule 7


Hi everyone. The draft below will become official in the next few days when it is published on the PD website. In the meantime... enjoy!

Simon

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Odyssey 2011 Update

Happy new year from all on the Odyssey team!

We were very proud of our first event, and expect to do even better this year. As a result of all of your feedback, we're making some changes to the game this year. We're also announcing the results of arena battles at the first event. News about renown will follow, as well as an updated Gazetteer reflecting the consequences of the first event for the game world.

Players are welcome to run their own events in the Odyssey world. We have created a simple set of guidelines that are available on request.

Changes to the game

Death
We hope to simplify the death process and reduce the need for interaction with the GOD tent. The aim is to interrupt the flow of the game less when characters die.

24hr time in
24hr time in will remain in the IC field. To support those players who would like to socialise with others OOC we intend to provide an ‘OOC chill out’ space attached to the OOC caterer.

Philosopher game
The philosopher game will be changed for the next event. We are working hard on giving more options to players and improving the experience.

Quests and arena access
We would like to re-iterate that champions may only enter the arena with the warleader of their group and cannot change warleader during the event. In the future, quests will normally be restricted to one per player.

Rather than implement complicated, bureaucratic ways to enforce this, we will continue to rely heavily on the honesty of players. However, we will be paying more attention to access. We would like to remind players that dishonesty in this is cheating.

Drowned Dead and arena staff
We realise our intent for Drowned Dead was not made sufficiently clear in the rulebook. Their costume and the “IC explanation” for their presence is purely to reduce their intrusion into the game world. If you prefer, imagine them wearing hi-vis jackets and ignore them in the way you would ignore referees in any other game.

To clarify: the Drowned Dead are OOC referees, and nothing else.

The court of King Minos, who administer the arena, are characters and as such you can chose to interact with them as you wish. However please be aware that IC and OOC their prime function is to keep the arena working.
We appreciate that this may be unclear, and some of the costumed roles mix IC and OOC function. If at any point you are confused please speak to GOD

Arena
We are developing plans for the arena to keep it busier in between the arena battles. If you have any plans that we could help here, then we are very interested in hearing them. Entertainers, gladiatorial combats, all are welcome.

Changes to the rulebook
There are a number of changes to the rules and the rulebook. In addition to further simplification of the rules and skills, some of the flavour text will be altered so that it does not obscure the meaning of the rules.

Cultural Armour
Gladiator armour is now additional cultural armour for Rome. At a minimum this comprises:
• Helm
• Arm guard (manica)
• Greave (single or pair)
The armour can be either leather or metal.

Weapon length and shield dimensions
On reflection we were too relaxed about weapon length and shield dimensions. Weapon checkers and referees will be paying more attention to the kit used by players, especially the length of hand weapons and the dimensions of shields.

When we publish a revised rulebook this will increase the length of javelins allowed. The allowed length of a javelin will now be 42” long. This means that all spears under that length must be safe to be thrown.

Bead mix
The mix of white, red and black beads will be changed this year. Instead of 15/3/2 the most common split will be 17/2/1.

Skill changes
The ‘expert physician’ skill has been removed. The effects of a red bead pull now based on the wounded character rather than the physician. If a wounded character receives a red bead then they survive if they have ‘resilience’ and die if they do not.

The ‘physician’ skill is now a requirement for contributing blood to a mystery. For example, a mystery that requires three blood requires the participation of three physicians with this skill, as well as any requirement for apply quintessence skills.

We understand these skill changes will affect your existing choices. Remember you may change your character's path or skill picks between games.
The skill ‘open gate of horn’ will not give automatic kudos to a priest when it is used.

Kit changes
All of the culture briefs will be changed and simplified.
The Persian Immortal gains ‘resilience’.
The Greek Hoplite gains ‘resilience’ but loses one ‘extra hit’.
The Greek Physician gains one more type of ‘apply quintessence’ but loses ‘expert physician’.

Sacrifice
The Sacrifice skill is not appropriate for the sacrifice of specific items.

Characters are welcome to roleplay the use of the skill in any number of culturally-appropriate ways, but referees will only record the quintessence and coin used. We would hope the roleplay itself is its own reward.

To perform a human sacrifice, as demanded by some gods, the skill ‘open gate of ivory’ is required.

Arena battle results
Here's the results of the arena battles that happened at "Steer of Heaven", as announced by King Minos in the presence of all the heroes of the Middle Sea shortly before the end of the event. To the victors, the spoils: in tribute of drachma, of quintessence, or in special items for the next Annual!

The results of the Saturday

10.30am Carthage challenges for Emporiae led by Maur-Al-Tan of The Pillars and Jugurtha Yalad Beker Zabah of Yalad Beker Zabah
Won by Maur-Al-Tan of the Pillars of Tingis who now hold now hold Emporiae

11.00am Egypt challenges for Cyrene led by Prince Nebethet of The Khemenethorus
Won by Prince Nebethet of the Khemenethorus who now hold Cyrene

11.30am Greece challenges for Rhegium led by Atreus of the Children of Perseus and Aeneas of The Daedanauts
Won by Valouriouse of the IV Legio who now holds Rhegium

12.00pm Persia challenges for Miletus led by King Cyrus of The Sons of Marduk and Sharivar of The Conclave of Enki
Won by King Cyrus of The Sons of Marduk who now hold Miletus

12.30pm Rome challenges for Panormus led by Versipellis Superbus of the Collegium Domus Grypi
Won by Versipellis Superbus of the Collegium Domus Gryphi who now hold Panormus

1.00pm Carthage challenges for Ostia led by Ba'al Akeen Hannon of The Hannon Souk
Won by Ba'al Akeen Hannon of The Hannon Souk who now hold Ostia

1.30pm Egypt challenges for Leptis Magna led by Ramekhet IV of House Ramekhet and The Servants of the Living God
Won by Ba'al Akeen Hannon of the Hannon Souk who now hold Leptis Magna

2.00pm Greece challenges for Pompeii led by of The Dogs of Thrace
Won by Calida Flavius Aquila of the Cruentus Anatidae who now hold Pompeii

3.00pm Persia challenges for Ilium led by Ilha Shantaram of the Hyrcanian Tigers and Ariamnes of Hyrcanian Lions
Won by the Hyrcanian Lions who now hold Ilium

3.30pm Rome challenges for Palma led by Valouriouse of the IV Legio
Won by Artoro Sagitus of the IV Legio who now hold Palma

4.00pm Carthage challenges for Syracuse led by Melita of the Aynukmelita and Syphax Naravas of The House of Naravas
Won by the Neptune's Fist who now hold Syracuse

4.30pm Greece challenges for Neapolis led by Nikolaos of Macedonia of the Aegis Hellas
Won by Lucius Praxis of House Praxis who now hold Neapolis

5.00pm Persia challenges for Serdica led by Ascanius of the Kingdom Of The Eternal Scorpion and Hadib of The Azad
Won by Canthos, The Serdikan Bull of the Dogs of Thrace who retain Serdica

5.30pm Rome challenges for Gades led by Calida Flavius Aquila of the Cruentus Anatidae and Neptune's Fist
Won by the warleader of the Pillars of Tingis who now hold Gades

6.00pm Carthage challenges for Maseilla led by Artos of Gades of the Sacred Hammer Guard
Won by the warleader of the Sacred Hammer Guard who now hold Maseilla

6.30pm Greece challenges for Cumae led by Diogenes of Isthmia of the Sons of Bellerophon
Won by Diogenes of Isthmia of the Sons of Bellerphon who now hold Cumae

7.00pm Persia challenges for Rhodes led by King Bahadur Suhrab of the Blades of Palmyra and Parthos of Guardians of the Nameless City and Jalila Mirza of the Eyes of Darius and Tarik of Temple of the devouring wind
Won by Nikolaos of Macedonia of the Aegis Hellas who now hold Rhodes

7.30pm Rome challenges for Tarraco led by Lucius Praxis of the House Praxis
Won by Maatharka Durane of the The Sentauri who retain Tarraco

The challenges of the Sunday

10.00am Rome challenges Serdika (Greece) fought by Cruentus Anatidae and Neptune's Fist
Won by the Dogs Of Thrace who now hold Serdica

10.30am Persia challenges Kos (Greece) fought by The Azad, The Kingdom of Eternal Scorpions, The Sons of Marduk, The Eyes of Darius and the Conclave of Enki.
Won by the Kingdom Of Eternal Scorpions who now hold Kos

11.00am Egypt challenges Leptis Magna (Carthage) fought by Khemenethorus and House Ramekhet.
Won by the House Ramekhet who now hold Leptis Magna

11.30am Carthage challenges Palma (Rome) fought by The Pillars of Tingis, The Sacred Hammer Guard, Anukmelita and Yalad Beker Zabah.
Won by the Sacred Hammer Guard who now hold Palma

12.00 Greece challenges Ariteum (Rome) fought by Aegis Hellas and The Sons of Bellerophon.
Won by the Collegium Domnus Griphi who now hold Arretium

12.30 Persia challenges Ephesus (Greece) fought by the Blades of Palmyra, the Temple of the Devouring winds, The Hyrcanian Lions, The Hyrcanian Tigers and the Guardians of the Nameless City.
Won by the Hyrcanian Tigers who now hold Ephesus

1.00pm Egypt challenges Knossus (Greece) fought by The Servants of the Living God and House Ramakhet.
Won by the Daedanauts who now hold Knossos

1.30pm Carthage challenges Genoa (Rome) fought by the Hannon Souk, The House of Natuvara and the House of Gades.
Won by the Hannon Souk who now hold Genoa

2.00pm Greece challenges Miletus (Persia) fought by the Dogs of Thrace, The Daedanauts, the Children of Perseus and the Macedonian Spartans.
Won by the Sons of Marduk who now hold Miletus

2.30 Rome challenges Ostia (Carthage) fought by Collegium Domus Gripi, IV Legio and House Praxis
Won by the Hannon Souk who now hold Ostia




http://forums.rule7.co.uk/Topic127378-95-1.aspx

[Steve (Aegis Hellas)]

Excellent thanks for posting this Dean. I see this as a nice update to an already brilliant system, even more streamlined and glad they are going to be checking shield and weapon sizes more. The 42" Javelin is a nice addition too that will really help flight trajectory as we found out experimenting with 36" and 42" sizes during the training meet in Wrexham last year at Ians. Really pleased we get Resiliance too that will really reduce the level of attrition for us. All in all i am very happy with the changes PD has made here.

Persia are going to be in trouble with Mysteries too as they still dont get Physician as culture kit meaning they will have to either go for picks (weaker Viziers) or for each Vizier they will need another Persian with physician meaning they will need double the number of people for rituals. All adds up to a further drain on their manpower so they will be forced to choose between military might or magic which is exactly what we need to level the playing field against them.

[Wozzi]

although Persian warriors have been given an extra skill where as the hoplite loses a hit to get resilience. as someone commented on rule7, it's not like they were doing badly in fights.

*edit*
scratch that - they may look to giving resilience to all warriors... seems unclear whether that includes warleaders at the moment though

[Draxus]

yeh I for one fail to understand why the most powerful and largest faction in the game needs a further helping hand regarding resilience and the persians.
also bit dissapointed to see that yes javelins can be longer but as a thrown weapon they are still borderline useless

[Wozzi]

i agree. i understand giving everyone a little boost in order to limit the high death rates that were experienced. i could understand boosting Egyptian characters as they have the smallest number of players but boosting the largest nation who won a lot of their fights just seems ridiculous.
i'd like to think there is a valid reason for PD to do it?

[Draxus]

That valid reason smells a lot like persia is 1/2 of the current player base on its own and its important to keep 1/2 the player base happy.

[Wozzi]

oooh cynic

i'd hope that's not the case. i think we need to see how the change plays out and if it looks like Persia are wiping the floor with everyone, we complain... and then complain some more.

[Steve (Aegis Hellas)]

Agreed with you Wozzi lets see how it pans out. I think on the whole theres plenty of good changes and PD are good chaps so lets not jump to conclusions here and give them the benefit of the doubt.

[Wozzi]

Also, looking at the booking numbers we Greeks and our allies the carthaginians make up more than half the numbers with all the other nations put together.

Is an interesting debate on rule 7 though... However that site appears to have been down for a few days now

[Archimedes]

just found out they are moving servers

[Leviticus]

I have been talking to Simon via email about the rule changes.

Looks like Persia will not be getting a 6 point build now, I think I have successfully talked him out of giving the most popular nation an additional advantage and removing the only advantage Egypt, the smallest nation, currently has.

However...
He seems to think there is no problem with Impale or the current Javelin rules. This partly being due to not many people having mentioned anything about it. So- if any of you are more like myself (Impale is too powerful, javelins are too weak) please make your voices known before the rules get updated on the PD site!


And on a related note, does anyone else think the Hoplite package should swap out Throw Javelin for 1 Handed Weapon?

[Wozzi]

Nice Work Leviticus
i'm very glad they haven't boosted the Persians. i really couldn't see the reson for it unless Persians had been complaining???

personally i quite like the power of bows but that does make javelins rather redundant (especially as they don't fly very far/straight). i do however think that the average hoplite historically would not carry a javelin (they might throw their spear) but would swap to a one ahnded weapon at close range. so if you want me to put my name to that if you put it forward, or want me to email PD, let me know.

[Steve (Aegis Hellas)]

I personally feel Javelins are totally inappropriate for Greeks they are historically a Roman thing and one of the "key" things i think when someone says Roman Legionaire. Greeks would almost exclusivly used spears (Doru) and switched to one of three types of traditional Greek swords failing that. Greeks paid trainers for sword lessons though as they were not part of the armies training but many did. Put my name down for Javelins out Swords in for Greece!

[Draxus]

Yeh javelins are NOT a greek weapon and they are UTTERLY useless in the arena, they can accuratly be thrown a maximum of 15 foot, travel slowly, easily avoided, and can be knocked out of the air with a weapon unlike arrows.. I would happily ditch them in favour of a good greek sword

[Philip]

personally I have to disagree. The javlin was a very Greek weapon, mainly used by Peltas and Psiloi. So from a historical view piont they have merit.

The hopolite kit covers several types of warrior just as the roman leginaire can cover a Gladiator. Unless Pd start running multipul classes for champions javalin is a key weapon.

Then there is the mythic setting to take into account, Odessey is not a precisely historical setting.

I am not arguing that javalins can be weak I am just saying the argument is hardly clear cut.

[Wozzi]

that's a fair point and can see why the class needs to cover all options... but if you wanted to create a peltast or an archer, you would immediately be penalised by not choosing the kit option.
i know PD wanted to encourage people to use shields and spears which is fine. i think most of us would do that anyway but if you do want to play something slightly different you lose one skill pick. i did as a champion last year as i wanted to use a sword instead of a spear but had to lose a skill to do so

[Draxus]

romans now have an added gladiator kit pick +gladiator armour as cultural.
I feel that out of the choice of a sword (or one handed weapon) versus the javelin.... we should ditch the javelin.. did anyone on these boards kill someone with a javelin? How many of us where killed by one handed weapons?

[Leviticus]

Simon says the Javelin is in the kit instead of sword because (and I quote)
"This is about cool-thentic, not authentic"

I, however, think the cool factor is also lost on this point. As I have stated to PD, most people are only using their Javelins as one handed weapons anyway. There is nowt 'cool' about watching a large group of players use their Javelins as improvised swords because the rule system doesn't allow them to use swords!

So yeah, anyone who agrees with me feel free to email them too, cos right now I am sounding like a lone voice in the wilderness! (Additionaly I would prefer our Warleaders to have 1H Weapon or Resilience rather than the 'useless vs impale' extra hit- but that might well be just me so I haven't made it as a suggestion!)


Romans don't have an actual Gladiator kit yet, just the cultural armour. Which is a bit odd really, I'd have preferred a Gladiator kit rather than all the Legionary kit (including the shield) on a Gladiator level of armour 'cos it looks cool'.
I have been dancing around the question as to whether we could do the same with a '300' style outfit and wander round in leather underwear and no chest armour if the weather is hot enough, but so far no bites (pun intended) from PD...

[Wozzi]

Agreed. I don't think it looks cool and the simple fact of the weapon design for safety makes it useless and silly looking when thrown.
I'll email PD shortly

[Philip]

is it really that bad? Its effectibly a free skill because of the kit. I really feel we are making a mountain out of a mole hill.

[Steve (Aegis Hellas)]

Yes they are really that bad and the bit about people using them as improvised swords or bludgens is right. I would never throw mine i would use it to beat someone around the head with it which frankly negates the cool factor.

[Wozzi]

we don't want to make a mountain out of a mole hill but we can always try to improve things. I emailed PD (who promptly and politely replied) and they said that as you can have up to 18' short sword (aka large dagger) for free, it's not something they will be changing. but if you don't ask you don't get. and as ptolomy said, it's not exactly the end of the world. i think a far greater grumble was the Persians getting an extra skill which PD listened to everyone and are not doing it.

[Draxus]

Well it is their system and if they dont mind an entire nation using javelins like clubs then their loss IMO.

[Bob/Telemachus (CoP)]

Whilst I think we all pretty much agree that the javelin is a bit of cack weapon, it is, as Ptolemy said, effectively a free skill. I would think that PD decided against one-handed being part of the hoplite kit as it may well discourage hoplites from bothering to take a spear into the arena. We'd then just end up looking and fighting like every other nation and personally I think that would a disappointment.

[Oenos [Daedanauts]]

Yeah, javelins are basically just a pointless easter egg that has been added to make it looks like a kit champion has more skills than a DIY champion. I think I did see a the occasional javelin hit getting landed but only in quests, not in the arena. In fact the thrown javelins tend to just flap and twist in the air - looking more embarassing than cool. Is there a minimum length to spears? Could someone scrap the javelin skill altogether and just use one for clubbing purposes? Giving javelins impale probably wouldn't create many more deaths because they fly so badly, but it would certainly give the enemy something to worry about.

Not too chuffed about losing the extra hit in favour of resilience. Resilience is of no use in the arena so we're basically sacrificing some combat stayability in order to give the chaps in GOD less work. It might be useful in quests, but Greece is deliberately quest light.

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